internet lab | Podcast Season: 1 - Episode: 11 / Release date: 5-1-2023

1:1 with Rudolf van der Berg
Stratix

Episode Highlights

00:00 Intro

01:24 Q1 - How do you interpret the relationship between users accessing more content and services online and the impact this may have on telcos?

08:47 Q2 - What are the inherent dangers (if any) of Big Tech being requested to pay for the network of telcos?

18:39 Q3 - Do you think it is appropriate to compare the contribution of Big Tech and telcos in infrastructure, as suggested by some?

31:18 You have 1 minute to deliver a message to the powers that be in the EU on the 'fair contribution' discussion: make your case.

36:08 Outro

Key Quotes

"It has always been the case that incumbents were very reluctant to invest."

1 / 18

"The biggest issue is that whoever looks like a big user today is not the same tomorrow."

2 / 18

"There is a lot of European content too, and if we just started charging the Americans, we probably will start charging the Europeans"

3 / 18

"Almost everybody already pays, and pays a lot, particularly in countries like Germany and France."

4 / 18

"In Germany, everybody pays Deutsche Telekom. Otherwise, your traffic just doesn’t arrive there."

5 / 18

"German universities have an extra pipe specifically to Deutsche Telekom. Not because they wanted to, not because they needed to, not because they didn't have any capacity, but because Deutsche Telekom refused to invest."

6 / 18

"Telcos: they're lazy, they don't want to invest in interconnection. And if they get extra money for being lazy, they will continue this practice. So we absolutely shouldn't do this."

7 / 18

"In the Netherlands, KPN uses the Netflix Open Connect caches in almost every major town: it saves KPN a lot of interconnections between a lot of towns, a lot of interfaces, a lot of lines."

8 / 18

"If we pay telcos they won't fix their networks. They'll just say, it's the other guy's fault. That's what they have been doing for the last 20/25 years. There's no reason to reward bad behaviour."

9 / 18

"Nothing changes if I use a lot of content, or no content, because all those [network] investments are exactly the same."

10 / 18

"Online gaming: that's a massive market where (...) the French company i3D.net (Ubisoft) is massive in. Gaming these days, as a market, is larger than movies. Should we ask them for money too?"

11 / 18

"This is just jealousy, this is just, well, they sound cooler than us (...) [but] you can be a boring telco executive and make good money every month."

12 / 18

"The only reason why incumbent telcos currently invest in FTTH, is because there are competitors entering their markets in almost every country. And if [incumbents] don't build [FTTH], somebody else will, and steals away all the customers."

13 / 18

"Telcos have basically been complaining about the cost of Internet for over 25 years (...) [Telcos] are fighting the same battles, pointing at the same outsiders as the reason for their own mistakes."

14 / 18

"[Telcos’] shareholders will reap benefits from [investments in fibre] for over 50 years to come. That's the telco business."

15 / 18

"There is fundamentally no reason to break the Internet, the innovation, the content delivery over the Internet, by handing out money to incompetent telecom operators."

16 / 18

"Our issue in Europe is not the networks: our issue is making use of them and not being jealous (...), we will benefit from them for the next 50 years."

17 / 18

"People will first cut Netflix, before they cut Deutsche Telekom."

18 / 18

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About Our Guest

Rudolf van der Berg | Partner - Stratix

Rudolf van der Berg is a consultant with 20 years of experience in Internet, telecom, privacy, online content, standardisation and related topics.

In the past, Rudolf was an Economist and Policy Analyst at the OECD working on telecommunications and Internet-related policy. He notably wrote reports on Machine-to-Machine communication, Internet of Things, connected television, mobile termination rates, fixed mobile convergence, international cables and Internet exchange points. Working together with BEREC - the Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communications, he organised two meetings on IP-interconnection, which brought the Internet peering community and regulators together.

Relevant Resources

[Video] NLNOG 2022 - Rudolf van der Berg | Big Telco vs Big Tech, Or Why Telcos Want Money for Traffic Again

[Slides] NLNOG 2022 - Rudolf van der Berg | Big Telco vs Big Tech, Or Why Telcos Want Money for Traffic Again

Internet Traffic Growth Is Not Out of Control, and Nothing Like Telcos Want You To Believe

Map - Fiber Broadband by Municipality in the Netherlands: 1 Million More Homes in 2023. 5M So Far, 3M To Go!

Rudolf van der Berg

1:1 with Rudolf van der BergStratix